John Bird and Asif Saleh on international social enterprise

Noting the person-centered drection of Big Issue Invest recently, I reflected on a Q&A session by Jeremy Harrison of Equal Works a few years back where I took the opportunity to ask Big Issue founder John Bird about international social enterprise. The transcript is still online

JEREMY: You’ve mentioned internationalism and how important that is to you. We’ve got a number of questions about that that I want to just to put in to finish off with. Asif Saleh, who’s actually a director of Goldman Sachs – has been asking… is there support of help to start UK social enterprises that actually target countries or impoverished minority communities overseas? And actually, he’s not the only one whose been asking that question. Jeff Mowatt was asking that question about the role of UK social enterprises in overseas development, whether there’s money for it, whether there should be money for it?

JOHN: Are they suggesting that maybe it impoverishes the people overseas rather than ... it might help them but it wouldn’t help the people overseas? Is that what they’re really saying?

JEREMY: They’re not suggesting that. They, as I understand it, are actually asking whether we, here, should see some of the growth of our social enterprises into the overseas aide or overseas development market, if you call it…dare to call it a market.

JOHN: Yeah. I’m a great believer in that I ... That’s why I was never… I’ve never got excited about things like “Make Poverty History”, because I think their romantic idealism. I think what Africa… you know to me, I don’t want to do anything for Africa. I want Africa to do something for me. So, I want Africa to start making stuff that I can use and that I can sell throughout the world. I don’t want to lift another finger for Africa. I want to be able to put Africa in a situation where they can lift their own fingers, they can have their own high streets, they can have their own social businesses, they can have their own social echo. And so therefore, we can bring about transformation through trade, and through tapping into their expertise and all that stuff.

With hindsight I now realise the name of Goldman Sachs might have influenced John's initial response. It was 2007 I believe, and   before their involvement in the subprime mortgage crisis was better know.  We were not from the same stable.

P-CED had been active in international development since sourcing the Tomsk Regional Initiatlve in 1999.  The Tomsk community microfinance bank was a key recommendation from founder Terry Hallman.

John Bird's remarks about making entrepreneurs of Africans was very much aligned with what we'd argued in a proposal for development for the Tatars,  In 2003 an impoverished and significantly homeless Muslim community in Crimea   

"It is not enough to merely give people the things they need to survive. This will work for a short time, but is not a long-term solution. There is an old saying: give a man a fish and he can eat for one day. Teach him to fish and he can eat for a lifetime. Giving people enough to live today may be enough for today, but it is not enough for tomorrow. Helping and teaching people to make a living, sustain themselves and their families, is in fact the only long-term solution to the problem of poverty. Further, for the first phase of economic development or economic recovery of any location, it is also possible to create an ongoing source of the critical funding needed to get the job done. Capitalism and market economy comprise the best economic engine ever invented. Assisting poor communities in developing their own markets is now meeting growing acceptance as the best way to go to alleviate poverty. The profit motive, integral to capitalism and market economics, is the driving force for successful economies around the world."

At the time of the conversation we were heavily enganged in Ukraine. As a later interview with Axion News revealed:

"Hallman is currently investigating the setup of a multi-million dollar fund offering split financial ROI if needed, that is, a portion to investor(s) and the remainder to P-CED.

The funds will be directed to concluding a project in the Ukraine which involves funding the training of residents to develop social businesses. Included in this work is supporting children who have disabilities, many of whom have been left to die in secretive locations. P-CED is helping to move these children to safety and give them access to modern healthcare."

As you might have guessed, he didn't get it. Neither was there any support from the social enterprise community.who seemed intent on disregarding the international perspective.  Today transition of childcare from residential to foster care, albeit with higher margins and lower risk, is something of a growth area for social impact bonds.     

In 2007 Terry Hallman had been homeless for 10 years and in 2011 died in poverty, leaving a question about the value of others.   . 

Today the Goldman Sachs director is a social entrepreneur.

Equal Works became ESF Works and Jeremy Harrison is the founding directot of abdi

John Bird describes an exit strategy for poverty, making a powerful point about the distance between the liberal poverty campaigner and the poor.  From my experience, all too common in the comfortable world of social enterprise.